Kinda looks like you done answered your own question.
I've read it makes a difference if the fan or fans are pushing air or pulling it.
Neil

 

x2 I had to look twice, said how the hell did somebody ask and answer in the same thread!!!! I'd say if it stays in that range in traffic, cruisin, you'll be o.k.!!!

 

well......

i was told by a few old timers...... take it for what it's worth...... they've told me that 254* is the temp redline for bad problems.

sean

 

Your water temp of 210* is not too high; I like a little lower than that but what raises my eyebrows is the difference between the thermostat and actual operation temperature of you engine. If you are running a 175* T-stat and your water temp is at 196*-210*, I'd say you might need a larger capacity radiator.

Paul

P.s.: The boiling point of water in a closed cooling sytem increases 3* F for every pound of pressure increase. And sure, the more ethylene glycol you add to the system, the higher the boiling point/lower the freezing point. But water takes heat away from the engine more effectively than anti-freeze does, so personally, unless you live in the desert (chance of boil over) or great white north (chance of freeze), I don't particularly like running more than 50/50 and usually I run less that that (I lean toward a higher water concentration than anti-freeze). By the way, the ethylene glycol also serves as a waterpump lubricant.

 

Your water temp of 210* is not too high; I like a little lower than that but what raises my eyebrows is the difference between the thermostat and actual operation temperature of you engine. If you are running a 175* T-stat and your water temp is at 196*-210*, I'd say you might need a larger capacity radiator.

Paul
You pointed out my concerns there Paul ie 175 stat running at 196. I have removed the stat and run the car out only to find the same result in temps.

nickbay
The fan is one of the cheapy ones coupled to the fact there is no shroud probably explains the higher traffic temp

I guess before I go down the "larger radiator route" I should shroud the radiator and increase the airflow with a more effective fan and see what the results are.

 

180-210 is normal. It should be able to maintain 195-200 even in the hottest weather though.

 

Am I just paranoid or is it okay when I'm driving around my 10,000 lb truck I built I hit 190 so I pull over and let it cool down and I never let it get past 190 my truck is an 86 E350 Fleetwood RV that's been chopped down to cab and chassis with an 18-wheeler sleeper and are all steel flatbed behind that beside tool boxes my truck is set up with onboard air smallest setup I can build on board welding running nothing but AMG batteries for the power for the welder and I'm usually empty and this is around 95° weather am I just paranoid or am I safe I'm running nothing but straight water in Colorado for right now that's my timing cover leaks so I keep my radiator cap cracked as to not build pressure and push water into my oil

 

You need more airflow at lowspeed as evidenced by the fact that it runs cooler running down the road. A single 16" fan ain't much air flow for a 460, especially if it's a cheapy fan, depends on cfm. Radiator size is probably fine, just up the air flow. And by airflow I mean through the radiator fins, by that I mean if you have a 16" fan strapped to the radiator with no shroud to pull the air through all the fins, then no wonder it gets hot in traffic.

 

I believe you will find that a shroud will make a significant difference...particularly if the engine heats up at idle, but is fine driving down the road.

My stockish 460 in an F150 has a 180 t-stat and runs 180-185 down the road in 90 degree weather, and will slowly rise to 190-195 at a idle (5 mins or more).

I am using a stock fan and with a shroud. Got the shroud off of ebay for about $75.

 

You need a fan shrould, that will solve your issues I bet.

 

My truck (460) normally runs at 180* on the dot, occasionally it'll dip to 170-175 briefly. If it's 100*+ out and I'm pulling the boat I might see 185* (4000 lb boat + 6000 lb truck). This is with a stock radiator from a 351w (might be the same rad they used for 460 trucks, they're a good size) and a Edelbrock 8866 pump (only pump I ever use on a BBF, it's that good).

My car (460) run at 180* on the dot whenever moving, and will creep up to about 190*-195* if sitting in 100* traffic. Won't go any higher than that. Car has an Edelbrock 8866 pump, but no fan shroud. Whenever I get around to putting a shroud on I'm sure temp will stay lower in high heat traffic. This car would overheat in traffic if I let it sit too long, and temp would creep to 195-205 with a stock pump, Edelbrock pump fixed that.

Alos use good high flow 180* thermostat (Miloden, others are fine I'm sure) in everything I have.

Before I got my first Edelbrock pump I got a Weiand, since it was available local and I got a discount on it. Pulled the backing plate off and the impeller was the same cheap stamped piece of junk that goes into stock pumps. Ditch the weiand pump and get an Edelbrock, or any other pump with a nice cast/machined impeller. Also you may need a larger radiator.

 

The engine will run cooler with a lower concentration of anti-freeze.
Where did you find a 175 Degree rated T-stat?

 

Probably in the UK. Maybe some sort of conversion from a Celsius scaled unit?

 

Question: Assuming that your radiator/fan combo is adequate; and that the temp never goes more than 5 degrees over thermostat rating; is there any advantage to running a higher temp thermostat? I know my 2003 daily driver truck always stays around 210 and I get good fuel economy(21 avg). Do you think higher operating temps are part of the reason?

 

My 2005 Jeep Wrangler 4.0L ran a 210 thermostat as well. Factory does that mostly for emissions I believe. It bothered me living in the desert at high altitude so I put a 195 in. Once I got a check engine light and ran the code. It was crying that it was taking too long to come up to operating temp (210 I guess). I reset the codes and it never came back.

 

 

My 5 year 460 Ford Willys coupe build has finally hit the road. My question is what temp should a BBF be running at under normal circumstances/
I am using a 2 row ali rad, 16" electric fan, 175 stat, wieand pump which gives me highway temps around the 196 degf with in town traffic temp at 210 degf. Would you guys say this would be about normal as the following article I picked up on the net suggests.

"Most engines today are designed to operate within a "normal" temperature range of about 195 to 220 degrees F. A relatively constant operating temperature is absolutely essential for proper emissions control, good fuel economy and performance.

A 50/50 mixture of water and ethylene glycol antifreeze in the cooling system will boil at 225 degrees if the cap is open. But as long as the system is sealed and holds pressure, a radiator cap rated at 15 psi will increase the boiling temperature of a 50/50 coolant blend up to 265 degrees. If the concentration of antifreeze to water is upped to 70/30 (the maximum recommended), the boiling temperature under 15 psi of pressure goes up to 276 degrees.

So does this mean a cooling system with a maximum concentration of antifreeze in the coolant (70 percent) can run as hot as 276 degrees without boiling over? Theoretically yes - but realistically no. The clearances in most of today's engines are much, much closer than those in engines built in the 1970s and early 1980s. Piston-to-cylinder clearances are much tighter to reduce blowby for lower emissions. Valve stem-to-guide clearances also are closer to reduce oil consumption and emissions, too. Plus, many engines today have aluminum heads with overhead cams. Such engines don't handle higher than normal temperatures well, and are very vulnerable to heat damage if the engine gets too hot.

Anytime temperatures climb beyond the normal range, the engine is running in the danger zone."

Any advise would be much appreciated
Ian

Media added by Ianmerry

Change your thermostat to a 195 and used a non thermal clutch fan. I live in Az and drive a 76 Lincoln with a 460, tried many things nothing worked until I did this, I took my car out today 105* , with the a/c on it ran around 204 and 208, just try it.

 

I start feeling sketchy whenever it creeps over 200. I run a 165 therm.

 

165 is far too cold. The motor will not run efficiently and the oil will begin to sludge up.

 

Really?
I've been running a 160 HF stat in my 570 HP BBF powered LTD for almost 10 years.
This engine makes better power at 160 than it does at 180, 185 and on the rare occasion it hits 185 it has to be over 90f ambient.
The semi syn oil is fine during every oil change. Engine is nice and tidy under the valve covers.




S

 

Scotty, there are exceptions to every rule and you seem to have found a combo that works for you. All I'm saying is that in most cases, with a cold thermostat, the motor will not reach temperatures that are necessary to burn off acids and other by-products of operation. Just take a look at the temperature range of thermostats that are installed at the factory. Don't you think that the professional engineers who are employed there would install 160/165 thermostats into the engines of new cars if it had been proven that they were the hot tip?

 

The use of high temp thermostats is in consideration of emissions and fuel economy. Most every choice the engineers have made since 1968 or so has been in consideration of the clean air act.

When we are building oem style or near oem style engines at the shop we recommend a 180 stat in most cases.

When discussing a higher HP EFI 460 like our 400 hp crate engines we again recommend a 180

When discussing performance oriented, high compression, lower use engines that see regular oil changes and maintenance, AND where the generation of power is of greater import than fuel economy... I recommend a 160 HF stat.

Though my LTD's water temp is typically in the 160 to 175 range my oil temp always reaches or exceeds 180.

Speaking of engineers. Most of the 460 powered EFI trucks in the 8500+ GVW were calibrated to run a 14+ to 1 AF at WOT. This was not a what was best for the generation of torque. It was about meeting emissions on an underpowered engine that would see frequent WOT operation trying to haul rated loads.

I've seen the sunken exhaust valves, broken exhaust bolts and warped manifolds as a result.

A more efficient engine combination, better free flowing exhaust, a 180 HF stat and some fuel system pressure tuning keeps the engine in closed loop more frequently offering the same or better fuel economy and the power to pull a grade at 70 mph rather than 50 in open loop.

This combination of parts has always passed Cali emissions there and here in WA state.

Thanxx for chiming in...




Scotty J. "AKA" The "Mad Porter"
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